Angrboda

I often wonder how many people who use the word “muscatel” have ever actually tasted the real thing.

I think it varies. I believe people use it for a specific note they recognise, but it may not be the exact same note for everybody… Sort of like if you take an average Yunnan, some people will say it has a pepper-y note while others think the same note is more pseudo-smoky.

Nice. That’s a great explanation of the whole art of tasting if you ask me. Thanks Angrboda!

Hope you do not mind the comment, but muscatel is an interesting comparison. I have had the grapes and muscatel/moscatel wine often. First, I think there is no wine that tastes like fresh grapes though, or like raisins though, all those tastes seem pretty different to me. Grapes are one thing (and even though grape flesh has one taste, grape skin another, grape seeds other), raisins other taste, wine other, and then it varies wildly from grape to grape.

Muscatel grapes are rare in that they are used for wine but can also be eaten normally like table grapes. Wine grapes taste awful usually – they tend to have very thick skins (that is what gives interest to the wine). Muscatel grapes got thicker skins than normal table grapes so I think the muscat comparison might be more sort of a grape skin or raisin ( raisins taste more like skin because obviously the grape flesh has lost a lot of volume) sort of taste. Muscatel wine, hmm that is hard, sort of like Madeira or Sherry maybe :), which OK will not help much.

Wayne, my father is into whiskys, and one of the things he has been taught during tastings and has since passed on to me is that if just one person finds a note, even if it’s really bizarre, then it is there. Because we can’t discuss other people’s smell/taste sensations. It makes a lot of sense, really, but I had never even considered it before he told me.

Cteresa, I know it doesn’t mean grape – grape, but that’s still the association I tend to get. Can’t help it. :)
Madeira or sherry, nope don’t like that if it’s not in food. :)

Madeira and sherry, but ah, they can be on food as well :) Depends on how you use it – for example I like to add a splash of Port to a lot of apple cakes and crumbles. And a lot of spirits can be used in other dishes – there is a steak sauce which is supposed to take madeira. It has its own smell, but yeah, you might as well try to smell Muscatel wine – you would not have to drink it.

You are right about the notes. There is one particular tea I like very much but would never be able to describe its tastes till I read blender´s description and they were right, it sort of tastes like roasted chestnuts. I suspect sometimes it is just the power of suggestion, though might be some elusive subtle chemicals. BTW just checked what McGee says about muscat grapes and he calls it flowery and citrusy with terpenes.

About your dislike for wine and alcohol, I read somewhere humans tend to have an instinctive dislike for foods which go through fermentation or similar processes. We tend to overcome that dislike with familiarity with one particular type of fermentation (LOL, tea tea? rooibos?) though we might still dislike other type of fermentations like very ripe cheeses or alcohol fermentation. I like wine, but I am familiar. I just tried a very highly rated melon tea and sort of loathed it because the melon tasted “fermented” to me and fermented melon is out of my comfort zone – fermented grapes taste or even fermented apples would be OK for me probably!

My alcohol tolerance seems to be going down. I’ve never liked beer (ew!) and I’ve been able to take strong spirits straight up, but I have been able to enjoy them when mixed with something fruity and sweet. I can’t really have that anymore. But I’ve had wine since I was in my early teens, gradually learned to drink it under supervision of parentals. Started with a little in a sherry glass and eventually graduated to a proper glass. Just a few years ago I could drink more wine than I can today. These days it’s one or two glasses with a meal and that’s it. After that it just stops tasting good to me. I’m going backwards on this.

Come to think of it, I think I know why. My doctor once prescribed me this absolutely vile cough medicine which had some 34% alcohol in it or something like that. It fits that this should be the turning point for me.

And funny, you should mention cheese. :) I’m picky about cheese as well, mostly like the milder ones. I like those a LOT though. :)

I’ve never been able to take strong spirits straight up.

Gah. Wish I could edit comments.

One or two glasses of wine with a meal and after that stopping to taste good sounds absolutely perfect and just good sense and the historical way people drunk in my country (of course, one or two glasses of wine or an appetizer, with every meal, twice a day. But out of that, tsk tsk, frowned upon, though I guess it started changing mid 20th century with whisky becoming popular and so on).

And associating a taste-smell with discomfort can totally kill the joy on it. There is one fruit I dislike eating because of that. Reading tea reviews I find it interesting that so many americans tend to associate cherry flavours as cough medicine, an association I would never make!

And regarding cheeses, I like best the ones with a LOT of character, but then again I like a lot almost all kinds of cheeses.

Yes, that’s true! Where I live cough medicine is typically licorice flavoured. In herbal medicine licorice root is supposed to be good for air ways and throat as well as mildly disinfecting (I think. This is just off the top of my head), and I always thought it probably wasn’t a coincidence that manufacturers used that particular flavour in cough medicine.

My father says the cheeses that I prefer taste like sticking your tongue out of the window… :p

LOL at the cheese flavour analogy :)

In the south of Europe liquorice is usually not so popular as a flavouring – I mean aniseed sort of is for a few specific things and drinks. but liquorice itself is probably a northern European thing. Particularly salmiakki, oh my.

Ah salmiakki, that’s om nom nom nommy. Although my boyfriend, who’s english, claims it has nothing to do with sweets. :D It does seem to be a largely scandinavian thing, though. We like stuff that’s salty. Since meeting him I’ve learned to use a LOT less salt in cooking as well.
For us aniseed isn’t the true licorice flavour though. Licorice root is more what we associate with proper licorice. Aniseed is just something with a pseudo-licorice flavour. Like fennel.

I actually did a little research into licorice flavor recently. (From an upcoming review for It’s All About the Leaf.) Thought this might tie into the conversation a little – hop you don’t mind me butting in. :)

There are a few ways to get licorice-like flavors. There is the traditional licorice root, but anise, star anise, and fennel all contain similar flavoring agents. All these plants contain the chemical compound anethole which provides that signature flavor. And while all are similar, there are subtle differences. Licorice root is sweeter, anise is more aromatic, fennel is milder, and star anise has a bit of a bite.

That is so interesting wombatgirl, thank you! I think we do not use liquorice tastes enough to really be able to tell apart too much. I think anise is the ones I like best because it is the one traditionally used here, and I like it in small ammounts on the traditional things it is used.

One of my colleagues like these little pure licorice tablets. They’re 100% raw licorice with no sugar or anything added. Very strong flavour and a little bitter. First time she offered me one I disliked it so much I had to spit it out. But then they sort of grew on me. Strangely addictive, those things. Now I feel like sending you some. :D

It’s been a long time since I had any, come to think about it. Strange, really, how aforementioned vile cough medicine, which was packed with licorice flavouring and licorice extract didn’t turn me off licorice at all, now that we’ve discovered it’s probably at the root of me liking alcohol less and less…