ZhenTea said

Do you have any questions about Chinese tea?

I noticed that there is a lot confusion and misunderstanding about Chinese tea and its culture, and Chinese tea is really little known in North America. I’m open to all kinds of questions regarding Chinese tea, and I’ll try to answer them as quick and comprehensive as I can. I hope this can be a place where we share Chinese tea knowledge with each other.

I am also a Chinese tea blogger. So I’m hoping to find some interesting topics for my blog too. If I’m going to mention your questions in my blog, I’ll ask for you permission before hand.

98 Replies

I could swear I saw this post before.

Ditto!

ZhenTea said

Haha, really? Then throw some questions to see if you get the same answers.

Login or sign up to post a message.

yssah said

you could answer a few that are already posted on the forum :D

ZhenTea said

Yep, working on a few now.

Login or sign up to post a message.

What makes Yunnan teas so fabulous?

ZhenTea said

Simply speaking, it’s the plant itself, the mountainous landscape and the climate. Large-leafed tea tree and the ages of the trees is the ultimate advantage Yunnan teas have. Moreover, the whole province is warm all year round with pretty big temperature change between day and night and obvious rainfall change between dry and wet seasons. These are all excellent conditions for growing fabulous tea. Actually these factors apply to a lot of other tea regions as well.

Those classic sweet woodsy Dian Hongs are to die for. Such a unique forestry flavor and smooth character. I usually feel like I’ve been whisked away to an ancient tea forest deep in the mountains. Aren’t jasmine pearls originally grown from Yunnan as well?

ZhenTea said

Agree, Even though I’m not a big fan of black tea, Dian Hong is one of a few black teas that I really like. Jasmine pearls are from Fujian Province. Yunnan doesn’t produce that much jasmine green tea nowadays due to the popularity of Pu’er, but there’s one kind I saw here in some stores, called Nv Er Huan. It looks like a ring as the name suggested.

Login or sign up to post a message.

My question is in regards to Dan Cong wulongs. I have an affordable variety Dan Cong that’s smokey and chocolaty. Where do the regular public access Dan Congs come from in China, and how do they get their orchid-taste?

ZhenTea said

When we talk about Dan Cong, it usually refers to Feng Huang Dan Cong which grows in Feng Huang area. Most Dan Cong in the market are from the flat area in Feng Huang County, while the really good ones grow on Wu Dong Mountain. But I also saw some mislabeled Bai Ye Dan Cong as Feng Huang Dan Cong (the color and the shape of the dry leaves are quite different, same with the taste eventually). By “orchid-taste”, I assume you mean Feng Huang Dan Cong Mi Lan Xiang (honey orchid aroma). This taste mainly comes from the plant itself. But Dan Cong has many other types of aroma, such as Huang Zhi Xiang, Da Wu Ye, Ya Shi Xiang. They have quite different flavours even though they are all under the floral tone. If you enjoy the orchid-taste, Minnan (south of Fujian) Wulongs are worth trying, such as Tie Guan Yin, Zhang Ping Shui Xian, Bai Ya Qi Lan.

I like the orchid, but it’s the honey, cocoa, toasty and fruity flavors that I like about the Feng Huang. Ti Guan Yin is one of my favorite teas, but I love all jade oolongs. I knew that the orchid flavor has something to do with the way they let the tea tree grow, something about an umbrella shape?—but I don’t understand it. I just looked up Zhang Ping Shui Xian; I’ve never seen a tea with leaf quite like that. Looks like sheng made from buds.

ZhenTea said

I’m sorry to tell you that there is no relationship between orchid flavour and the shape of the tea tree. Simple examples: no matter how a Rou Gui is trimmed, it won’t have an orchid flavour; and a wild Dan Cong or wild Tie Guan Yin doesn’t need to be trimmed to have orchid note. It’s not possible to understand the effect of the umbrella shape because it doesn’t make any sense at all. Zhang Ping Shui Xian is a hand-pressed oolong. Zhang Ping is the name of the place, and Shui Xian is the name of the tea plant. It is made of one bud and 2~3 opened leaves, same as other wulongs.

So, then, it is simply the natural flavor of the varietal?

ZhenTea said

Three major factors I would say: species(varietal), region, process. The type of the tea plant makes it possible to have an orchid flavour, while where the plant grows affects the flavour. For example, when Shui Xian grows in Wuyi area, the rocky, mineral flavour become dominant, though real good ones still has the floral side. Process also matters. The skills and experience of the tea makers can easily elevate a poor tea or ruin a good tea. Poorly made Tie Guan Yin rarely has a good orchid flavour.

Rasseru said

can you recommend me a good Tie Guan Yin with orchid flavour?

Tealyra’s high roasted Ti Guan Yin has a good orchid flavor. I love that tea.

Rasseru said

excellent. thanks!

Rasseru said

http://www.tealyra.com/products_search.php?search_string=tie+guan+yin&search=GO hmm which one is it? ive had an ‘iron goddess’ before and it had jasmine in it and i hated it

It’s Ti Kuan Yin Iron Goddess of Mercy.
http://www.tealyra.com/iron_goddess_monkey_picked_ti_kuan_yin_oolong_tea?search_string=tie+guan+yin

Just had another session of it. Delicious orchid scent and honeyed nectar flavors.

Rasseru said

ok, i’ll have to try some. the one i had before was really not to my taste at all. didnt get any honey at all, was all jasmine. apparently some get blended with jasmine? read that somewhere. i can do honey and orchid, oh yes.

Login or sign up to post a message.

When using my gaiwans I like to only just barely tilt the lid before I pour, then I open it a little by relaxing my index finger as I’m pouring, which creates a tricky-to-maintain but nice, clean, steady stream of tea flowing out, that doesn’t slosh or make noise.

When I see Chinese using gaiwans on Youtube or what have you, they seem to always be tilting the lid much more, creating a wide opening rather than a “stream,” and the tea sort of gushes out in a rush, making lots of noise. When I use that technique, it seems to slosh the tea some and, also leaves always get out that way, that is, if it doesn’t slide further open and lots of leaf gets out. I even see professional Yunnan tea makers doing it that way. How should one tilt/hold the lid for pouring, and why?

ZhenTea said

The way of pouring the tea out from a gaiwan is one of the little details that can affect the flavour of the tea but it doesn’t have a rule. Both ways you mention work. The good thing about how you tilt the lid is you will have a clean liquor, but personally I feel it’s more likely to get burnt by hot water. I don’t know if it happened to you or not. The advantage of tilting the lid more is you have better control of the brewed liquor, but you need a filter :D. By barely tilting the lid, it means it takes longer to finish pouring. So some of the liquor might get over brewed during pouring, which eventually affects the taste of your tea. But if don’t have a problem with it, I think what you do is totally fine. Chinese Cha Dao respects different ways of brewing. The ultimate criterium is whether you bring out the best flavour of the tea or not. 10 people brew the same tea will render 10 different tastes. It might be good or bad, but it’s never right or wrong. I would recommend you to try two ways side by side and taste the difference yourself, then you will find your way to go.

Since I usually find myself doing the clean steady stream rather than “raging torrent” tea pouring, I have become accustomed to outwelling the liquor somewhat earlier than I would if I were flash-pouring. I definitely understand that is makes a cleaner liquor, as this is what I was always going for. Also, I leave the drop of “root” in the bottom of the gaiwan, and this seems to prevent the additional steeping from slow-pouring. I don’t like the bubbly, almost grainy feel to flash-pouring without a strainer. I do tend to use a strainer now, but I realize with what you’re saying that I’m just doing this out of habit, and not because I need to filter the tea.

Fortunately, since I have to lid the bowl and begin the pour more quickly, I would much rather not fiddle with the filter, which doesn’t suspend itself on anything as it is small with short, short handle. This way, I can steep, pour, and enjoy without worrying about filtering the already cleaner infusion.

Sometimes I do tend to burn myself, but only if my hand is not rotated to the angle of the tilt of the lid. That is to say, sometimes I end up tilting at the wrong angle while pouring because I didn’t pay attention to the angle of my wrist, and so the tea comes out sideways rather than in a thin stream, and bites the hell out of my hand. Now I have learned this mistake, and am getting much better at angling correctly for a steady pour. At any rate, my fingers are very resistant to burning now. Thank you for clearing that up for me!

ZhenTea said

You are very welcome. My boyfriend brews his tea just like you do, and everything’s fine. The only suggestion I would have (because you mentioned Youtube) is that do not pour the water out from high, no matter what kind of tea you brew. I watched some videos on “how to brew” and some of them suggested to pour the liquor out from high above. That’s show/performance style, not a real taster thing.

Actually, I have never really learned anything about brewing from Youtube. Gave up on that long ago.

I can’t STAND the tea made from high pouring! It creates an astringent, bubbly mess in the soup! I like to treat the leaves very gently, pouring very low, and swirling the water down around the brim of the cup. However, I do use a little height for rinses. Should I not being doing this?

ZhenTea said

It should be fine with rinses. The reason for not pouring the liquor from high is because it accelerates the diffusion of the aroma and ultimately affects the tasting experience.

Well, haven’t you just been the most helpful! Thank you!

Login or sign up to post a message.

Ubacat said

Hey, thanks for answering questions on Chinese tea. I love Chinese tea. I used to hate black tea but Chinese black tea is excellent. Chinese greens are my favourite for all greens.

Why is Rizhao green tea hard to come by? I get a great one on Aliexpress from Shandong but it’s not a green tea I see often on seller’s websites.

ZhenTea said

Thanks for your love for Chinese tea. I just want to share the correct knowledge and proper message of Chinese tea and its culture with tea lovers, as I see the chaos in the tea market in China starts to affect here. It is my pleasure to answer your questions.

It is hard to find Rizhao green tea simply because it’s not so famous. When the market doesn’t recognize this tea, the demand is low. Accordingly, it’s more risky to carry this tea for tea stores. That’s why you don’t see Rizhao green tea so often. What tea is get from Shandong? Is it black? A lot of green tea regions also produce black tea from the same plants, like Long Jing (green tea) and Jiu Qu Hong Mei (balck tea).

I have to echo ZhenTea here: Shandong teas are not yet famous, at least not outside of Shandong.

Much of this has to do with history, and the way that historical trends effect domestic demand. As ZhenTea explains, it is more risky for someone outside of the local area to carry a lesser known tea, especially if that tea is a green tea (which is the bulk of tea produced in Rizhao and Laoshan). These unusual teas represent a greater opportunity cost to non-local vendors. This also means that foreign vendors and tea lovers have less exposure to these teas, unless they have some particular reason to travel to and work in Shandong, which in turn makes English-based tea shops less likely to offer these teas (again, unless there is a personal connection or motivation).

Southern Chinese teas dominate the market – and it’s not for no reason. The climate is warmer and more temperate. Let’s face it: most of Shandong province is very dry. Laoshan and the area around Qingdao are a big exception, because of Laoshan’s famous spring water: without accessible water, it is very difficult for larger scales of agriculture to flourish, and that’s true anywhere in the world (just don’t tell that to California!). Fujian province alone has registered almost 300 distinct tea varietals in China’s national tea genetic registers, while Shandong province has registered…. one!

E-commerce actually provides an interesting alternative to this for tea farmers in Shandong province who want to share their work with a wider audience. Precisely because Chinese tea in general is still a “new” thing to many Western audiences, less famous teas have an opportunity to introduce themselves to a relatively unbiased market (OK, well – biased in a different way ;).

Of course, getting the correct certificates and inspections and clearances to export teas from small producers is extremely difficult (essentially, impossible unless you are extremely stubborn and creative). That’s probably another reason why you only see Rizhao tea on places like Aliexpress: the large wholesalers and exporters that supply almost every foreign tea company have no incentive to offer Shandong teas (in part because the domestic demand is low, and in part because the international demand is practically nonexistent); because the tea is not in the big catalogs, it does not make it onto Western retailers’ “shelves.”

Vendors on Aliexpress are so small that they can afford to specialize. If the person running the project has a connection to Rizhao, then they have an opportunity to offer a product with low competition.

In short: the more you (the customer!) keep asking for unusual and uncommon teas, the easier it will be for companies to justify importing that tea. If I had a personal connection with farmers in Rizhao, I would certainly want to share it with the world! It is a unique tea that deserves some recognition; I simply do not find it personally acceptable to share teas without being able to also introduce and give credit to the people behind the tea, and that makes sourcing a little more difficult ;)

Ubacat said

Thank you for the detailed explanation! I never knew that about Shandong province.

ZhenTea said

Thank you, Lily. Your detailed explanation is wonderful.

Login or sign up to post a message.

Yet another question I have is regarding shifting the leaves around when the gaiwan is full of leaf. I’ve read that moving the leaves to allow the leaf on the bottom more room to steep is helpful once the leaves have expanded. Ti Guan Yin expands out of the bowl, so I’ve been trying this recently. Does it actually make a difference? If so, what is the proper way to go about it? I’ve just been scraping the top leaves over, allowing the bottom leaves to come up and then pressing them all back in with the lid.

ZhenTea said

I don’t think it’s necessary. I personally don’t do this and I’ve never seen any real tea masters do this. Fill the gaiwan up to 1/3~1/2 (depending on your preference) with the dry Tie Guan Yin leaves, and it should be fine. This method also applies to other oolongs with similar shape. There are a few possible reasons that the leaves are not all expanded.
1. the tea is not done. It is quite normal that after 3 or 4 infusions, some of the leaves are still not fully expended. Don’t worry and keep going. These leaves will expend just like the others in the ends.
2. The gaiwan is too small and the leaves kind of overflow during the brewing, then choose a bigger gaiwan next time. A proper ratio between the vessel and the tea is important for the brewing experience as well as the tasting.
3. Poor quality tea. The leaves are not fully expended while the taste says it’s done. Oh well…

Yeah, I never noticed a difference when doing that, except maybe that the tea cooled more quickly, which isn’t good. They don’t overflow per se, just fill to the top (which I thought was good).

ZhenTea said

Yep, that’s totally fine.

You are loads of help though!

Login or sign up to post a message.

Advice on yellow tea? Huang Ya and Junshan Yinzhen? More specifically the latter, as I haven’t tried any of that variety yet. I loved the Huo Shan.

ZhenTea said

Honestly, I don’t really suggest yellow tea to people. First, I would say that yellow tea is for advanced tea tasters because it’s really similarly to green tea for a lot of beginners while the price is way higher than most of the green tea. Second, I don’t see much real yellow tea in the market especially Junshan Yin Zhen, even in Chinese market. The real Jinshan Yin Zhen with authentic process is rarely seen. The tea from the few producers who still know how to make Junshan Yin Zhen properly are long booked before it’s even done. There is a slim chance you might see it in the market, but really slim. However, it’s always fun to try those, I call, “new Junshan Yin Zhen”. Just don’t expect the $30~$50/25g tea is the authentic thing. This phenomenon is similar to the pu’er market.
Please excuse my blunt and not so positive answer. It’s only because personally if I spend a lot of money on a yellow tea I would want to try the real thing, not a stale green tea or whatnot. But in general, yellow tea, this elegant and precious category of tea is definitely worth trying.

It may not be genuinely processed white tea, but it was pretty cheap. Tealyra sells theirs for $6 an oz. It seems to taste like yellow tea, it’s certainly oxidized. Some people told me it’s the finest tea they’ve tasted, so it wasn’t bad, and it isn’t completely green.

http://steepster.com/teas/tealux/45302-huo-shan-huang-ya

ZhenTea said

It’s wonderful that you find some yellow tea that you like. But just in case you are interested to know, Huoshan Huang Ya doesn’t look like this. Anyways, I think the most important thing is that you enjoy it. Sometimes it’s not so important to find the real thing, but the right tea for you. :D

So these are just whatever sorts of yellow tea, but not from any specific region, or processed the authentic way for yellow tea? It’s good to know that it isn’t Huo Shan.

ZhenTea said

It is a tea from Anhui Provence. Personally, I incline to say it’s a lower grade Huangshan Mao Feng based on the look of the dry leaves in the picture. And the shape of the buds and the leaves indicates it’s picked quite late in the season, around Lixia (around early May). But all I said was based on the picture I saw on the website. There might be aberration or whatnot. So it might be a low grade “Huoshan Huang Ya” too. All in all, it’s a good tea as long as you enjoy it.

I can say that the leaf looks just like that, so you’re probably right. It is very tasty, light like white tea and slightly oxidized but very buttery and nutty, with sweet grassy flavor. I haven’t had any for a long time.

I just looked up Mao Feng:
The tea is grown near huangshan (Yellow Mountain), which is home to many famous varieties of Green Tea. Huangshan Mao Feng Tea’s English translation is “Yellow Mountain Fur Peak” due to the small white hairs which cover the leaves and the shape of the processed leaves which resemble the peak of a mountain. The best teas are picked in the early Spring before China’s Qingming Festival. When picking the tea, only the new tea buds and the leaf next to the bud are picked. It is said by local tea farmers that the leaves resemble orchid buds."

I can say that they were bud-and-leaf pick, and that they had an abundance of hairs in the liquor.

I’ve also had some varieties claiming to be Bai Hao Yin Zhen. It was this company’s: http://www.tealyra.com/silver_needle_premium_yinzhen_white_tea

What would you suggest for a white tea? I prefer white and oolong teas, but I am also very comfortable with Chinese green tea. White tea is very easy on my stomach, but very strong chemically and lovely flavors. I have a limited budget though. I notice that in some places the “silver needle” has a lot of brown and oxidized leaves, sort of rusty looking mixed in with the white. The leaf I had was all silver and fuzzy with needles.

Rasseru said

yeah, ive had different types of bai hao yin zhen, and am also interested in different or higher grades of white tea. the good stuff ive had before was like your picture, white and fluffy, and ive had bad tasting leaves that were more yellowed.

ZhenTea said

Good Bai Hao Yin Zhen should have jade-like greenness under the white fur. Brown or rusty look is normal for aged white tea but not desired in fresh white teas. I think all grades of white teas are worth trying. Bai Hao Yin Zhen, Bai Mu Dan and Shou Mei, they are different parts of the same plant, but rendering totally different flavors. How wonderful it is! And I love aged white teas as well. They are really soothing, and they never get over steeped. Once I forgot my Shou Mei 2009 in the gaiwan for over 20 minutues, and it turned out to be fine!

Where do the different buds/tips come from on the plant for the different white teas? And if I understand correctly, the flavor changes because they continue to oxidize some over time?

ZhenTea said

Yes, the flavor changes because they continue to oxidize over time, similar theory to pu’er.
Bai Hao Yin Zhen only uses buds/tips, Bai Mu Dan are buds with one or two leaves, and Shou Mei are only made of leaves. If they are all from the same cultivar/species from the same region, that will be the only difference between them.

Rasseru said

nice, ive never had shou mei, but i love bai mu dan and yin zhen. ive never let my white tea oversteep, thats nice to know that i can leave it, i must try that. so good tasting!

I think it depends on the leaf, and how much you’ve already steeped it. When I first over-steeped some Bai Hao Yin Zhen for too long a couple times it became bitter as well. I was brewing very strongly, though, but sometimes you do have to beware.

ZhenTea said

I agree with teatortoise that it depends on the leaf. Not every white tea can be over steeped. I was just mentioning a fun experience I had with one of my aged white teas.

Login or sign up to post a message.

Psyck said

I’m fairly new to teas and as I like most types of teas, I see a danger in my tea collection soon growing too large for my immediate consumption. Hence I would like to focus my purchases on teas that last for a long time. While I believe puerh will last a lifetime and most lighter white/green teas are probably best consumed within a few months, I’m not so sure of the other types of teas.

How long do teas like oolongs & blacks last, a year or two or much more? Any specific recommendations of teas that can be safely stored for several years is welcome.

ZhenTea said

Green tea is better finished within one year. But it can be longer if you store the tea in the fridge. White tea is good for age as the flavour changes. Most importantly, the health benefits increase. White tea works wonderfully for little respiratory system problems such as coughs and sore throat. 3 years should be fine with oolong and black teas, but the quality of the tea process matters. Actually good oolong and black taste the best around one year after processed. However, there are also amazing aged oolong and black teas. Both sheng and shu Pu’er and other dark teas are fantastic for aging.
I think any high quality teas are all worth aging (including green), and it can be fun to see how time changes your favorite teas.

Psyck said

Thanks :)

Login or sign up to post a message.

Ubacat said

I have a question regarding how teas are named. I see some teas that are named based on where they are from and other teas named based on the type of tea. For example I just had a tea this morning called Organic Hangzhou Tian Mu Qing Ding Green Tea. It looked like an Anji Bai Cha to me and tasted like one but why didn’t it have Anji Bai Cha in the name? Or are there some variety of teas out there that are very similar? It’s very confusing!

My guess would be that the tea you had isn’t made from the same cultivar as Anji Bai Cha. Before the leaves are processed they have an almost white appearance, hence the name (Bai Cha means white tea). Seven Cups has a good shot of what they look like here:

https://sevencups.com/shop/ming-qian-ji-bai-cha-organic-green-tea/

ZhenTea said

As Nicole mentioned, Bai Cha is a special cultivar that the leaves are pale green (white) is the early spring. And only the Bai Cha from Anjii area can be called as Anji Bai Cha. Tianmu Qing Ding is another kind of green tea, and if have a closer look, the leaves are quite different thatn Anji Bai Cha.
Generally speaking, white tea is named based on the grades. Green black and dark teas usually has the region in their names, while oolongs are named after their cultivars. These are the classic way of naming a tea, but there are also tons of commercial names.

Login or sign up to post a message.

Login or sign up to leave a comment.