I need to reach my goal by Black Friday support group
I have a problem and I’ve come to realize that I’m not the only one with this problem. Since I’ve joined Steepster my collection of teas has taken over my dining room. Now I know what you’re thinking, why not go visit the tea buying hiatus support group. Trust me, I have, and it has helped tremendously. In fact, I’m on a tea buying hiatus right now.
My actual problem isn’t that I need to go on a tea buying hiatus, I’ve been pretty good about that lately, but I do have a goal to reach and I’m having trouble reaching it. My goal is to have 150 teas or less in my cupboard by Black Friday. Black Friday tea sales are epic from what I’ve heard and I’m going to need the money and space available for them.
Since I wasn’t around for Black Friday last year, it would also help to hear what great deals everyone remembers. I need to start saving now, hence the I need to reach my goal by black Friday support group.
Thank you for your support ::grins::
I’m in this with ya short sorceress. 230ish at the moment trying to get to 150 or lower.
Many, many sipdowns? I envy your collection.
I’m always willing to swap, although that may work against my goal of being at 150 by Black Friday.
swaps help increase your cupboard “number” but i find they’re great for decreasing the total volume of tea especially with those teas that i might have purchase 2oz of in the beginning of my journey. Now i’m smarter and rarely get more than 1 oz heh
Swaps have really helped me avoid ending up with 1-2oz of tea that I end up not being able to drink because I dislike it. In the end, while they do increase my numbers, I avoid having a lot of tea I don’t want to drink sitting around. I would say that about 1/4 of my cupboard right now is from swaps, but I do need to get better at drinking my swap teas and not just letting them accumulate.
Go ahead and follow me and we can message each other about it. I’m up for swapping just about anything I have.
I use up a lot of my tea by doing cold brews and iced teas.
I’ve been trying do a lot of cold steeps lately, especially with my fruit blends. In fact, I just went out and bought a better pitcher for cold steeps.
I decided fruit blends (and anything with hibiscus) are meant to be cold- brews.
I agree, fruit blends & hibiscus = “Suicide is Painless”, a good way to use up odds & ends.
I also have a lot of cheaper Japanese green teas from Wegman’s and they taste good cold-brewed imo.
Also, M*A*S*H reference? (high five)
From Friday 12Jul13 until Black Friday is 20 weeks.
Short Sorceress if your cupboard is correct you need to drink/toss/send out 108 teas in that time period (258-150=108). That’s 5.4 teas per week between now and Black Friday (108/20=5.4). Not knowing the volume of your tea samples that doesn’t sound that bad. HOWEVER, that’s assuming you don’t bring any new teas into your house in that time period.
I too wasn’t around last year on Black Friday – I didn’t even know Steepster existed at that time last year. My cupboard was probably under 15 them. Since then, I’ve acquired the addiction/obsession with this site and all the new tea opportunities that that entails. I’m a little afraid, if the sales are as good as some are saying. I’m almost up to 150 (and will be by this time next week).
I need to get a grip on acquiring new teas. I don’t actually mind having 100 ish teas in my cupboard, but at the rate my numbers are going up, need to find a way to STOP the escalation.
This maybe the motivation that I need, thank you starting the thread.
You are very welcome :) I’ve talked to several people just in the last week who are in the same boat as us. Hopefully this helps us all.
(Un?)fortunately, my cupboard is up to date, baring any swaps I’m working on right now with people. I’ve done the math before and on paper it doesn’t sound bad, however, many of my teas include as much as 8oz. That makes it so much harder. I went on a tea buying hiatus and started swapping instead, but my numbers have still swelled even if the amounts are smaller and easier to sip down.
Sil pointed out recently just how awesome the sales were, and that they were actually better than the Christmas sales, so I knew I needed to get my act together. He’s in the same boat as we are.
LOL Plan of attack.
1. Drink more tea. Conscience effort to be drinking more of it. Take some to work, always have some made, either cold or hot.
2. Cold brew all the fruit flavored teas and tisanes. I’m already doing some of it, but need to always have iced tea in the fridge.
3. Use tea budget to buy tea ware not tea. Desperately need better/more tea ware. Don’t need more tea.
4. Don’t drink tea I don’t like. Start moving “not for me” teas into a separate box and when I get some stockpiled offer it up in the “take it away” thread. My tastes are quickly changing away from flavored toward straight teas. I’m getting fussier about flavored teas. Don’t get me wrong – there is room for GOOD flavored tea in my cupboard, but I don’t need all the bits and pieces that I’m not fond of. Sending it off to a new home seems better than just tossing it.
5. STOP BUYING TEA.
I should steal your #4, its a great idea.
My plan of attack looks something like this.
1. Do a complete inventory and during the course of this realize that I already have a ton of tea I need to drink (I did this when I joined, that’s actually how I discovered the site, I was looking to manage my tea somehow. I had a problem even before I joined sigh)
2. Get through the OMG everything sounds so good I want it all now phase (this unfortunately coincided with my 30th birthday so I had spare cash to make it happen.) Set up a monthly tea budget, which then shrunk down to a monthly swap budget.
3. Do another inventory and realize I have just doubled my tea stash in less than a week.
4. Go on a tea buying hiatus… then break it to buy from Butiki because Stacy offered 4 free samples and I really really wanted to try her tea. Go back on tea hiatus and stick to it this time, even if I did run out of Lemon Chiffon.
5. No more visits to the Misc. Sales thread, it is the root cause of my problem.
6. Limit myself to two swaps per month if they’re in the US or one international swap per month. (need to work on sticking to this a little bit better)
7. Set up this forum, I have goals now! Under 150 by November. Only 108 more to go
Ummm one of the “teas” in your cupboard is tea ware – you only have 107 to go. :)))
I totally agree with your #5, the sales threads on here are the reason I’m about to hit 150. I need to stop looking at the sales.
I’m also hoping that I’m just about through the “I need to try everything phase”. I’ve come to realize that I’m really not that interested in green teas, or straight white teas (I like some fruit flavored whites for cold brewing). That takes a chunk out of “everything”. I’m hoping that because I’ve found a couple of dark roasted oolongs that I adore that I don’t have to try EVERY Dancong that I come across. I’m pretty much done with green oolongs (I would like to try Mandala’s milk oolong but that’s about it). What I’m trying to say is that by Black Friday I hope I’m replacing/stocking favorites not “trying everything in sight”. That’s the other part of my goal.
Actually I think two of my teas are actually teaware, sweet, I’m lower than I thought :)
I’m addicted to oolongs, but for the most part have stopped ordering/swapping them mainly because I have two or three that just blow away the rest. I think I’ve found my perfect oolongs.
My intentions with Black Friday are to stock up on my favorites as well. I bought 24 tea tins for my cabinet and my ultimate goal is to fill those and rotate a few out depending on the season. I drink more pu-erh and lapsang souchong in the fall/winter and more fruit teas in the spring/summer.
Only 106 more to go
Oolongs are confusing me. I love the charcoal roasted ones, more than the green ones. Other than that, I’m still not at a point where I can really tell the difference. If you handed me a cup, I would know dark oolong, but couldn’t tell you much more than that. I’ve found a few I really like, and think I should just be happy with that and stop trying to understand.
I agree with you about different teas for different seasons. In my perfect world I would have about 50 of my favorite teas in stock and just rotate a few different ones in and out with the seasons. As new things come out, an occasional new one would replace something I’ve grown tired of. Not sure I will ever get there, but that would be the ultimate goal.
LOL 106 doesn’t sound so bad.
i’d imagine being on steepster will not help you with this goal, i would suggest not going on/browsing any sites related to tea. maybe do something like pick 5 teas and switch it up each day – depending on mood that day, until you start running out of teas in your rotation, then replace with another..ect. if you really find yourself wanting a new tea maybe look at the swaps to find something similar and try to swap something u have too much of/dont want for it.
self control is important but just-as if not more important is putting yourself in situations/states of mind where you dont have to use your self control. even if you have the will of a monk, if you constantly put yourself in tempting situations you will eventually fall of the horse(so to speak).
I don’t know that i agree for a number of reasons. Being on Steepster is a great way to find people to swap with and help me towards my goal of getting rid of anything I don’t like. It also helps me identify what teas I didn’t like and why, then help me avoid ordering similar types. Since being here and rating every tea I drink I’ve realized that I don’t care for Rooibos or citrus tea and now I don’t order or swap for those.
Right now I have a basket of my swap teas that I sip down each day and once those are gone my number should drop drastically. Combine this with swapping away anything I haven’t liked and my number drops even more.
I do agree that self control is important and tempting situations can lead you to falling off the horse. This is why I decided to figure out what was tempting me into buying more tea, in my case it was the lure of a good deal, I’m a sucker for that. When I recognized that by reading the Misc. Sales thread I was working against my goal and purchasing more tea I decided to do something about it. I have since stopped visiting that thread and with only one exception stopped ordering tea until Black Friday.
The last reason I disagree that Steepster will not help with this goal is that by being able to verbalize my goal (with this thread) I’m better able to stick to it. My intentions with starting this thread were to bring us all together as a sort of support system. We can help each other reach our goals and have someone to give us a swift kick in the rear as we start to have problems staying on track.
All of you feel free to offer a swift kick when I need it :)
I think hiding from the Misc Sales is the best way to avoid temptation, but another thing is just to be constantly aware of how much tea you have and counting down all your sipdowns in the post. That was a big thing for me – if I KNOW without looking at my cupboard that I have “X” teas, then it’s harder for me to justify grabbing more.
I’m following you too so I’ll try and keep you honest until Black Friday. I was here last year for the sales, but don’t remember how good they actually were (at least for Canadians). I think one of the most exciting ones was Lupicia, but that didn’t apply to me and I ignored it. I’ll be ready for this year and we’ll probably do the same thing where we have a thread JUST for these sales so everyone can plan their purchases out. It’ll be fun. I’m hoping to be at 100 teas before then! My cupboard says 138, but I actually have a cube of 18 sachets from H&S that I didn’t add because they’re all one-shots, but I’d like those to be gone too.
I’ve been trying to be better of logging what I have, who it came from (which I keep in a file on my desktop), and keeping track of my sip-down count. It has helped me be much more aware of what I have and how old it is.
Thank you for keeping me honest, I need all the help I can get.
I blame Della Terra for my new tea collection. Their sample packs are great. And I didn’t know about them until I joined here.
Della Terra had an amazing Black Friday sale last year. That’s when I first tried their tea, and I have been hooked ever since.
Oh I blame Della Terra as well. They were the first new company I ordered from after joining and I love about 99% of what they put out.
I’d like to scale back on ordering from Della Terra, but I love their teas so much I’m not sure if I can. I really think my goal is to try every one of the teas they offer, good thing they have try me packs.
Do you happen to remember the details of the sale from last year? I’m trying to figure out what is going to be a reasonable budget for Black Friday.
Yeah Della Terra was one of the first ones I started with and their constant sales make them very tempting. I’ve found that after a few months of drinking teas that I’m less enthused about these ones. I love the rooibos ones, and a few of the blacks, but a lot of the dessert ones seem too artificial/sugary for my tastes. :( I’m just happy I didn’t go too crazy with my orders or I’d be stuck with too much. I still enjoy them, even the “artificial” ones, but I crave those less is all.
I believe on Black Friday they had select teas at 60% off, and on Cyber Monday they had teas at 40% off. It was an insanely awesome sale. Other companies had similar sales, so I had to pick and choose which teas to buy. That was probably the hardest part of my whole day. :) I’d much rather stay home and order tea than go anywhere near a mall around Christmas time!
Here is the thread about last year’s Black Friday. It should give you a good idea of what you can expect. http://steepster.com/discuss/3800-brace-yourselves-dot-dot-dot-black-friday-slash-cyber-monday-is-coming?page=2
I think I am officially on a Della Terra hiatus until Black Friday, those deals sound amazing. I still have a few unopened samples for when I get the urge, so maybe I can make this goal.
Thanks for the link, that will help me plan my budget better.
I feel the need to state that I do not work for Della Terra,or any other tea company, and I have no idea what they might be thinking of doing for their Black Friday sales this year. :D
Thank you for making that clear ::grins:: Hopefully the sale is as awesome as last year.
Thanks for reposting the link! That Della Terra sale was what made me brave enough to make my first US tea order! It’s been crazy ever since!
This time I’ll buy 2oz + of the blends I know I liked, like line chiffon…
Why isn’t it fall yet? :p
Don’t wish for fall yet, that leads to winter and Wisconsin gets buried in snow. I hate snow. Then again, I do tend to stay in and drink more tea when it snows, and we all know how much I love to drink tea.
hmmm… nope I still want it to be summer, even if that means Black Friday is further away.
I want it to be Autumn. Most of my favourite teas are from that season. (And so many fun harvest festivals.) Also… pumpkin everything!
Looks like I am outnumbered.
Although, pumpkin everything does sound yummy… stop tempting me away from summer!
I’m in between: I like summer well enough when it doesn’t get hotter than 75-maybe 80ish once in a while. But lately it’s been 85-about 90 and really muggy. Plus…having a hard time remembering to make up some iced tea though do have some teas that are so-so hot that do somewhat better cold. It’s just when I can make hot tea that it is more rewarding for me. And plus with iced tea, though I often will just pour freshly steeped and hot tea over ice cubes, it’s not satisfying, though it helps stem the tea cravings.
I’ve seen a lot of references to the total number of teas on steepster, but it seems that the real measure of excessive tea ownership is not how many different teas you own, but how much total weight of tea you own.
The reason for this is that we tend to weigh tea out when we make it (or use a volume measurement that is proportional to weight, and so the total weight is a better measure of the number of cups we own than the number of different teas.
I first realized I had a problem when I did a complete inventory of all the tea I owned including the total weight of each type. I then divided this by the amount of tea I drink in a typical day to come up with the total tea I own as measured in the number of days it would last if I didn’t buy any more. I did two separate calculations for regular tea (before 3 PM) and decaf (after 3 PM).
Here is the calculation for caffeinated tea: 10 cups per day at 1.5 grams per cup = 0.5 oz of tea per day or about 1 pound per month. The sad news is that I own about 7 pounds of tea (plus 5 pounds of various decafs) so don’t really need to buy any more tea until December. I figure Black Friday is close enough.
The benefit of this approach is that you aren’t penalized for hanging on to a few grams of an old favorite, or swapping for a bunch of samples, and it gives you a true measure of your needs, vs your wants. It also means that eight half-ounce samples only counts the same as a single 4-ounce tin, so you are free to enjoy a wide variety if you choose. The bad news is that all those little half-ounce bags add up, so you may find (like me) that you own pounds and pounds of tea.
I’ll confess that I’m also a member of the hiatus group, and trying to hold off any purchases until my birthday in September. I’m also saving up for Black Friday, but when I did my inventory I found I still own about a pound of tea that I bought last Black Friday (I’m trying to drink it up by then).
Oooh I love the Math involved. :) Of course, that’s only a rough guide too because some teas are great for re-steeping, while others are tossed immediately.
I haven’t taken the time to weight out my teas, but I look at how much space my collection takes up. I have a row of 100g or less tins, and then 5 cookie tins that I store the little bags in. It used to only be 2, so I can tell that I’ve been buying too much! I’m trying to work down to 3 cookie tins again, which won’t be hard as some of them are less full than others.
But you’re 100% right – the number of teas don’t matter! Back when I first started I had maybe 40 teas, but a lot of them were 3 oz and up, and I’m still trying to sip those down.
Good luck with the hiatus group/saving! :D
Hmm – I wish we could log how much of each tea we have, and how much we use with each cup. That would make swaps, record keeping etc a lot easier to manage for those who take the time to fill it out. It would also tie us to Steepster even more if we logged EACH cup. :D
It does take a lot of time. I only weigh out my teas every three months or so. Kind of like an store’s inventory. It also helps to sort by category, which told me I had way too much oolong, but had to start shopping for Keemun and Darjeeling in the Fall.
I am agreeing with everything you said. Weight of the tea you own is really the definition of how much tea you have. Each person has their own organizational strategy of their cupboard. They also have their own idea/comfort zone on “how much is too much”.
My obsession (?) with the number of teas I have is more to do with storage than “having too much tea”. It’s easier to properly store 2oz of each of ten teas (20 oz total) than it is to store .5 oz of 40 teas (20 oz total). When my numbers get too high I’m worried that I’m not drinking the oldest first, or the improperly stored baggies from swaps, etc. Too many bits and pieces lying around causes clutter in my house and confusion over what I should be drinking. I also find that my tastes are changing and if I don’t get to a tea in a reasonable amount of time, I may never try it because I’ve moved on.
For me personally, 150 teas is TOO MANY regardless of how much I have of each tea.
Not disagreeing, just pointing out why “number of” is important to me.
Oh dear, I never was very good with math (says the person who had no trouble with Calculus, yet failed Algebra twice.) All kidding aside, my concern for the number of teas that I have stems from the fact that they are taking up over 1/3 of my dining room table rather than the nice tidy space I have dedicated to tea. Seems like Dexter3675 and I are in the same boat in this aspect, because clutter is a huge issue when you have so many small samples that aren’t easily stored.
When I drink my tea I try to drink it in the order in which it came in so I don’t have old tea sitting around. I wish I could view my cupboard with the oldest entry first, it would make things a lot easier. I also try to avoid opening new packages until I have finished off some of the older items that I have. My orders from Tazo and Culinary Teas have been sitting around for three weeks now just for this reason.
While I may have an excessive number of teas, they are all sample sizes, which give me 1-5 cups per type, possibly more if I steep a second time. I think that with my seven step plan (listed above) I can slowly reduce the clutter and pick my favorites, which was my initial goal when joining Steepster.
If I did have larger amounts of tea, rather than just small samples, I could really see the benefit of weighing everything out. I actually may take this approach once I narrow down my numbers a bit and start making larger orders of the things I like to drink the most. Right now I’m still trying a lot of new things to narrow it down to 24 favorites I would like to restock in the tins I bought for my birthday.
Thanks for the suggestion Dr Jim I really like the idea, I’m just not quite to the point yet where it will easily work for me.
Even though my numbers don’t show it (because I’ve started adding the teas from my epic swap that should be here as soon as customs releases it), I have made real progress this week. I’ve finished off 10 samples, some of which were about 3 months old. Hopefully I can keep up that pace once I get back from vacation.
I did cave and place an order with Della Terra, but I kept it small. I have 24 tea tins I keep stocked with my favorites and this was to refill one of those and to buy a surprise for my toddler. I think he’ll like the root beer float blend for our daily tea time.
How is everyone else doing this week? Anyone else having trouble resisting the TeaVivre anniversary sale?
I’m pretty much screwed lol the tea spot had a 2 day sale, mandala was my birthday order and I have an order ill be placing with butiki in 2 weeks
I’m probably going to do a little Teavivre order since the shipping is pretty much nothing, and m possibly a Butiki restock, but maybe not. Then…. no more. For good? Because soon I won’t even know what my address will be!
That’s the hope cavo. As for teavivre, my order will be the day the pearls go on sale. :) in a week heh
Also….that’s nothing cavo…you just ship it to y house and pick it up when you get here lol
Yeah, I want the pearls too. I have it saved in my calendar. :p
And, you’re such an enabler!
I actually plan on a $60ish TeaVivre order, which was hard for me because I don’t normally spend that much at once. I know it works against my goal, but I have several reasons for such a large order.
A. I want to support them, I didn’t realize they were only 2 years old and they have some of the best customer service I’ve seen in a long time. Angel has been super helpful with all of my questions, not to mention the samples she has sent me.
B. I’ve really fallen in love with the quality of their teas, although the one I really wanted to order more of is Out of Stock already. I want to sample as much as possible before placing an order during Black Friday. I hope to order sample sizes this time and larger amounts for BF. Hopefully, the teas I like are still in stock, but even if they aren’t I’ll still get to sample some really good teas.
After my TeaVivre order I should be back on hiatus until BF, unless I run out of something that belongs in my “can’t live without it” tins and come across a good sale on it.
I don’t think you should think about it working against your goal. You are saving up for good deals on Black Friday. BUT there is a good deal right now. So why not purchase now, with this awesome deal, instead of waiting for the same deal a few months from now. Really you end up even in the end – says the enabler :P
I placed an order with zentealife when they were having their 30% off sale. I don’t feel bad about this one because I was reordering three of our staple teas. I also ordered several samples from Adiago which I shouldn’t have done, but it was less than $12, so I’m not going to beat myself up to much. :)
Lala you are a horrible enabler! I’m trying to tackle the piles of tea on my dining room table. My husband has told me that if he knew I was going to use the last 1/3 of our 8 person table for tea storage he would have made me get a smaller table and made the rest of his family use a card table during the holidays. It has gotten bad enough that every person who has stepped through our door this week has asked me if I have enough tea (NEVER!)
Veronica I don’t feel bad about reordering staple teas either, I just did that today, as a matter of fact. I’ve also been better asking myself is this a tea I can live without before placing orders for my staples. I’ve come to realize that some of my staple teas don’t really suit my tastes as much any more.
So, uh, Cavo and/or Sil, if one of you is making a Teavivre order, I really, desperately want to try their Strawberry Oolong. And probably a couple other things….
Kittenna – the Sunday I get back ill be doing a small one to pick up their dragon pearls on sale. Send me a note and I can add your teas to that one
So here is a question for you all.
If a sale is suppose to be on the same level as Black Friday deals ::cough cough:: Butiki 1-day bday sale do I buy now or wait?
You decide how much you want to spend on teas overall and/or how many kinds you can/will buy, and then you divide those numbers between the pre- and actual Black Friday deals.
I’m torn too. I keep thinking about how many teas I haven’t tried. I have teas I bought 2 months ago that I haven’t gotten to yet. Trying to use up samples, swaps, things that aren’t sealed first. Will these teas just be added to that stockpile. Will I even get to them by Black Friday? It’s a really good sales. We know what this sale is, we don’t know what will be offered on Black Friday. I’m not sure what I’m going to do yet. There are several of their teas that I think are pricy that this would be a good opportunity to try. I don’t need more tea. Uggggg.
You need to evaluate your own cupboard, and decide what works best for you. Would you have to drink these teas to get to your goal before Black Friday? Would these prevent you from making those goals and therefore potentially miss some other Black Friday sales.
Just food for thought…..
If you saw this deal on Black Friday and would have gone for it, then I saw go for it now instead. I think it’ll be pretty similiar so you won’t miss anything by doing it now except getting awesome tea and curbing cravings for buying tea elsewhere at less of a deal, and then you’ll have more money for Black Friday later on.
Anna That is a great suggestion and what I was considering doing. I have an idea of what my budget is going to be. I think I’ll start a spreadsheet and keep a running total of what I have spent and what I have left to work with.
Dexter3657 I’ll admit it, I placed an order and it was a tough decision, especially since I had a really bad day and I tend to purchase more if I shop before I’ve calmed down. I decided to keep my order small so I don’t negatively affect my numbers much and I should be able to finish what I purchased in a couple of weeks. I also decided to only order the teas I had on my shopping list so I didn’t start looking around and thinking that I wanted one of everything. That is a huge problem for me.
I do know that I intend to place an order with Butiki on Black Friday and I haven’t had a chance to try many of their teas yet. This, as well as my last swap, have given me about 15 teas to sample so I can hopefully use the BF sale to reorder my favorites.
I have two orders from late May that I haven’t started on yet, but I didn’t want to open those yet since they were 4oz per tea. I may as well keep that sealed and fresh while I work on my swap teas. I have a lot of those to finish off and that should help me get my numbers down to a more manageable level. I also think that I’m going to stop swapping for the next few months, otherwise I may not make my goal. Not swapping may kill me though, sigh I love getting swap packages in the mail.
I’d place an order now and then….for sure Black Friday will be an order for me, if only to pick up more of the one tea that I want lots of grin it’s just not back yet….
It’s awful hard to just not buy any tea at all for 5 months. It’s better to permit yourself an occasional purchase, especially if it’s a really good deal.
I’ve allowed myself a couple of purchases between now and Black Friday. My goal is one purchase per month, and I have decided that if I skip a month then I get to double up on Black Friday. The goal is three months’ purchases. Along those lines, I placed an order with the Teavivre sale because I had specific teas that would run out before November.
I wish there were sales after the Holidays, and I mean like a month or so after so people have time to recover. Because I don’t have alot of money in general and that I usually end up procrastinating before buying gifts, I end up not being able to buy much anything for myself. That bites.
I would love to see more after Holiday sales. I generally have a little cash that I have received as gifts for Yule/Christmas and wouldn’t mind spending it while holiday teas are still in stock. I never seem to have enough money in Nov/Dec to enjoy the holiday teas, all of my money gets spent on other people in those months.
As a rule, I don’t buy anything for myself in December, other than food. If I truly want it, I may get it as a gift or can get it afterward. I also never participate in holiday sales (partially because I am Canadian and they weren’t really a big thing when I was younger and partially because it is all a bit too commercial for me. I try to reduce the amount of unnecessary things I own, treating myself mostly to food and tea. Yet my apartment is still over-full! :)