Jessie

Jessie 2011-12-02 15:06:32 -0500

Thanks for the info!

I’d take issue with your statement that date sugar doesn’t contain any kind of “actual sugar”. It is naturally processed from dried dates, which means it’s certainly sugar. It’s comprised of sucrose, glucose, and fructose. As you mention, dates are very highly glycemic (they’re actually what I keep on hand to correct hypoglycemia, since they’re so tasty and act faster than fruit juice!), so of course dried, granulated dates are also. However, steeping dates doesn’t cause a caloric or carbohydrate content in the tea that’s anything more than negligible. Added, granulated sweeteners that will make it into my cup are the worry. You must have added it to the blend for sweetness, so there’s no way around that. But, something being natural does not make it sugar-free or healthier for someone with diabetes. This is why the marketing around agave nectar really bothers me. It contains more fructose than corn syrup but because it’s advertised as natural, people believe it’s not harmful.

The new blend sounds great, and I would definitely be interested in trying a sample. Just to clarify: I don’t have a problem with there being date sugar in your blend, at all. I just wished it had been clearly stated as an ingredient. :)

Jessie 2011-12-02 15:08:29 -0500

Wow. I will actually opt out of the offer of a sample after being accused of “libel” by a company from which I bought tea.

aisling of tea 2011-12-02 16:53:44 -0500

You know, this conversation kind of cements my admiration of DavidsTea. There was recently a similar issue with one of their winter blends, and as soon as it was brought to their attention, they apologized for their mess-up (instead of “I’m sorry you had an issue”, which isn’t really an apology at all), offered to make things right, and immediately fixed the issue in all of their stores.

And, frankly, I’m going to take Jessie’s word on what affects diabetes, seeing as how she spends her life watching out for such things, over a company that admits to not knowing the addition of date sugar needed to be mentioned. It kind of makes you wonder what else is being added that they think doesn’t need to be mentioned.

Seeing as how “date sugar” contains, you know, sugars, I see absolutely nothing wrong with her review. Though I had been tempted to try this tea, the behavior of the company here has convinced me that my money would be better spent elsewhere. If nothing else, this should have been handled in a DM or e-mail.

Angrboda 2011-12-02 17:26:40 -0500

I agree with aisling of tea, especially the part where it should have been handled outside of the comment section, and I should think the company would have had an interest in that as well. This can’t be good for publicity.

But since it IS out here in public, I also find it very problematic that a company requests a customer to CHANGE THEIR REVIEW because the customer doesn’t like the way it was phrased.

Jessie’s review is not an objective opinion, nor should it be. It’s a subjective post about how SHE experienced trying this tea, and from what I can tell she did explain in it and in following comments exactly what her problem with it was and WHY it was a problem.

Jessie doesn’t have to change a thing is she doesn’t want to, because her review is all about HER personal experience of it, and it doesn’t affect anybody else.
The company’s information on the other hand is something that directly affects their customers because the customers have to be able to trust that that information is as correct as possible.

Jessie, good for you, refusing that sample. I wouldn’t have wanted one either if I were you.

aisling of tea 2011-12-02 17:36:53 -0500

I just blows my mind that there is no sense of “We’re so sorry we put your health and potentially your life at risk” coming from the company. They asked others to change their reviews too….it all just strikes me as shady.

Angrboda 2011-12-02 17:41:52 -0500

We’re a mom and pop operation. Literally, two people who sell one, single blend of tea

This does not mean that you have an excuse to not have your information in order!

Also, I would like to know exactly where it says anybody urged others to shop elsewhere. Because I can’t find it.

(And no thank you, I personally am not interested in your blend, but that’s because I don’t like dates)

aisling of tea 2011-12-02 17:45:01 -0500

I didn’t compare you to DavidsTea, I compared your reaction to an issue to their reaction to the same issue. I would expect their reaction out of any company that mislabeled their teas, no matter how small they are.

I didn’t urge anyone not to buy from you, and neither did Angrboda. I simply said I wouldn’t be willing to buy from you. Others can make their own decisions.

The plug at the end of the comment combined with the “my wife was in tears” comment that was obviously added to make us feel guilty as well as referring to Jessie as “him” kind of cements my decision not to buy or try this blend.

There is something to be said for Public Relations….this thread is doing you absolutely no favors.

Angrboda 2011-12-02 18:00:14 -0500

The plug at the end of the comment combined with the “my wife was in tears” comment that was obviously added to make us feel guilty as well as referring to Jessie as “him” kind of cements my decision not to buy or try this blend.

This. Also, no, nobody here is being ‘inconsiderate’. If you guys didn’t like Jessie’s honest opinion (and she’s a she, by the way!), that’s not really her problem. It is NOT the customer’s job to mollycoddle the company, no matter the size of said company. If the customer chooses to post a review of the product, it is the customer’s job to do so by describing their experience of it honestly. Which Jessie did.

Why is it inconsiderate to voice an opinion on something one believes is problematic?

Jessie 2011-12-02 18:03:00 -0500

Thanks, aisling and Angrboda. This was actually also handled in e-mails, which were rather accusatory.

The initial mention in my review in fact termed it date sugar. From there on out I shortened it to sugar since this is an informal review format and the ingredient in question is sugar. That’s really not misrepresentation.

While I appreciate your suggestion that “obviously dates are going to effect your diabetes,” I understand my condition and what affects it very well, having spent every day of my life from the age of seven observing it. As I previously mentioned, infusing dates or any type of dried fruit doesn’t contribute significantly to carbohydrate content. That’s one of the reasons flavoured tea blends are so great. Consuming granulated dehydrated dates is a lot different from consuming an infusion of dates. My concern here was the labelling, and I’m really glad you updated that and that I could clarify how granulated dates used as sweetener and chunks of dates act differently.

I indeed learned that there was date sugar in the blend before choosing to try it, and wasn’t in danger. But, that was after two emails from me and a mention of it in a discussion on Steepster and not before I bought it. I mention this in the review. I’m not upset that there is sweetener in the blend, since that was an executive decision of the blenders. I just give my opinion on the inclusion of date sugar and suggest that this should be explicitly stated.

I love supporting small businesses, but part of the reason why I respect them is that they have to contend with the big guys. You can’t really expect to be held to different standards, and you shouldn’t advertise your tea on a community like Steepster if you’re going to take issue with customers voicing their opinions. I wasn’t malicious in my review and my intention was certainly not to make anyone feel bad, but as Angrboda stated I gave my subjective opinion. Everyone reading it knows this. I’m not advertising this review and even after all this, I’m not discouraging people from buying from you. Nor have the others commenting here.

LiberTEAS 2011-12-02 18:06:33 -0500

You know… this whole thing sort of reminds me of an issue with another company that posts pretty regularly on this site… a company that I personally refuse to buy from now because of my witnessing the treatment of the customer by this company. (Not going to mention any names, but I am sure that some of you probably know which company I’m talking about).

Having been a “mom and pop” operation before (actually, it was just a “mom” operation, just me.) I too poured my heart and soul into the blends I created. I spent nearly a year perfecting my chai. Almost that long with my caramel. My “perfect” chocolate blend took years to create; although I admit that before that, I sold “near perfect” chocolate blends because they were still better than any that I had come across before. That blend was always in a state of being perfected until I reached the perfection point.

Anyway, my point is, I know what it’s like to pour one’s heart and soul into a blend… and how hard it is to read harsh words about the blends. But, you’re in a business, and you have to develop a tough skin and realize that not everyone is going to love your blend the way that you do. There are going to be some people who don’t enjoy it. That’s the way it is. It was a difficult lesson for me to learn as well.

Another difficult lesson for me to learn was how to still treat the customer (even the disgruntled ones) with the respect that they deserve. As a company, the customer is your lifeblood, and it is better to bite the tongue and accept the criticism without taking the stance of “I’m sorry that you have an issue with it” (which makes it sound as though the customer is wrong and you are right) and changing that stance to a more gracious “I’m very sorry. How can I make this right?” This second, more gracious tone validates the customer’s complaint, and makes them feel as though their input is valued, and that is incredibly important. You may not be able to resolve the problem with this particular customer (since dates, date sugar, or date crystals or whatever … is a no-no for a diabetic) but a gracious stance may earn you more customers in the long run.

There are a lot of people out there selling tea. Some may sell it cheaper, some may not have as good a product, but what will keep me coming back is not necessarily these factors but the customer service I receive. If I’m treated well by the company, I’ll be a returning customer.

aisling of tea 2011-12-02 18:14:34 -0500

I do feel the need to point out that I have ordered from companies simply because they handled issues with other customers well. Or like Verdant Teas, they make an effort to listen to their customers and connect with their customers. My wife and I are huge supporters of their teas because of the personal touch.

I have also cut all ties with certain other companies (one of which I was prepared to spend over $150 on) due to poor customer service/relations.

I have to say, I admire Jessie. But I also have to say that if any of my tea friends are considering ordering from this company, I do plan to refer them to this post and let them make their own decision.

aisling of tea 2011-12-02 18:28:46 -0500

Classy.

LiberTEAS 2011-12-02 18:39:00 -0500

Hmmmmm… I wonder who “X” might be.

aisling of tea 2011-12-02 18:42:16 -0500

This, ladies and gentlemen, is called a “flounce”.

Dorothy 2011-12-02 18:49:00 -0500

@LiberTeas, X is just http://steepster.com/Magic_Carpet_Tea with a renamed display name.
I think this whole ordeal, with the deletion of the shop and trying to cover up the Steepster details could have been easily avoided.

RachanaC (Rachel)-iHeartTeas 2011-12-02 19:05:34 -0500

http://iheartteas.teatra.de/2011/11/magic-carpet-tea-oolong-date-blend-review/ my review of the very tea in question. :) Thanks!

Jessie 2011-12-02 19:13:06 -0500

Thanks Rachel! :)

I feel like you were inappropriately bullied into an apology, though. You say you were corrected and that the tea contains “date sugar,” not “real sugar.” They’ve acknowledged that they understand it is sugar. I can’t believe we were both e-mailed with accusations of being “guilty of libel”. It boggles my mind that they would actually make legal threats when we simply offered our opinons. Your original review didn’t say anything inaccurate, though it may have been in wording that they didn’t like.

Jessie 2011-12-02 19:13:47 -0500

And, sorry for the drama, everyone! I hate causing a fuss.

RachanaC (Rachel)-iHeartTeas 2011-12-02 19:14:57 -0500

Probably true. I have also just noticed that they are no longer on Steepster, Twitter , and Tea Trade. Crazy huh?

Gal In The Grey Hat 2011-12-02 19:15:47 -0500

You were just giving your honest opinion on a tea. Which is what this site is all about. Thank you for giving it.

LiberTEAS 2011-12-02 19:20:51 -0500

@Dorothy: I knew that. I was just being snarky.

LiberTEAS 2011-12-02 19:21:58 -0500

Oh… and Jessie… the drama is not your fault. You were giving an honest review, it was “X” that chose to blow it out of proportion. Not you. :)

Jessie 2011-12-02 19:23:20 -0500

That is crazy, Rachel. I didn’t want to discourage them from selling tea or make it difficult for them to do so. But as aisling said, there’s something to be said for PR!

Dorothy 2011-12-02 19:25:01 -0500

I can’t believe they removed their store over one disagreement. Steepster is a good place to write about your tea experiences, because not everyone has the same tastes. I am sure that someone out there would read Jessie’s review and buy the tea anyway because they love oolong and date sugar. To each their own.

And on the note of libel… really? Dislike and making up amazing claims is something different. I’m sad to see that word being toss around on a tea review site filled with our honest opinions.

Jason 2011-12-02 19:52:44 -0500

Sorry I didn’t catch this sooner. I didn’t realize when the delete request was made that this was the reason. At least everything seems to have calmed down now. If you need any more admin-y things, give me a shout jason@steepster.com

aisling of tea 2011-12-02 19:55:09 -0500

Oh, I have no doubt they’re still watching this thread. I hope they enjoy it! I agree with Jessie, Rachel, you were both bullied into making apologies. All of their stuff, the Twitter, the Shop, the account here, they were all gone within seconds of their flounce. They’re just pouting in the corner like any other three year old not getting their way. I have no doubt that they’ll be back.

And, frankly, at the base of the matter, it seems like their tea was really low-quality anyway, so I’m not exactly counting this as a loss for the tea world.

Also, can we all agree that date sugar is, in fact, a “real sugar”? If it weren’t, then it would be called “granulated dates” or something like that.

Tea Trade 2011-12-02 23:16:45 -0500

This is interesting….

This is something that came extremely fast today and is certainly, in some senses, not a surprise and in some respect, I feel that I owe the tea community something of an apology.

We, at Tea Trade, hosted the Magic Carpet store. I personally assisted them in getting their operation going. We have a number of excellent sellers (many of whom you know here on Steepster), who provide great products and service to their customers. However, the principal person behind Magic Carpet was a known quantity. There were members of our community that were publicly attacked and I had more than one tense conversation with the owner of the company about his manner. We originally hosted two sites (a blog site and the store) for them, but after an incident in the early fall (the second incident this year) we deleted the blog site and I deleted the user account from our system and told him he was no longer welcome on Tea Trade.

The owner and I negotiated a deal, however (though I was told it was primarily going to be Mrs. Magic Carpet, with whom I had very little contact with) to host their sales site. We did so warily but vowed to monitor their activities, knowing full well what Mr Magic Carpet was capable of. Our thinking was that since they (more he) was now in the tea business, there was an ethical burden to behave under pressures of running a good business.

There was a rather public, and shocking, incident that occurred on Twitter about 2 weeks ago that caused us to think again about continued support for their business. That incident came and went and evidence of it has been deleted. And we’ve had no chatter with them on Tea Trade recently, with them only logging in to check orders. From our previous arrangement, they were forbidden to use any of the social features of Tea Trade.

Anyhow, this thread was brought to our attention and, quite frankly, I’m not surprised. I am aware, having watched them for the last 6 months, of what is possible and of the causes for it. I am not at liberty to talk about them, because those are private to the people involved, but they do not excuse inappropriate behavior.

For myself, and my wife Jackie, with whom I operate Tea Trade, I am sorry that the community was subjected to this. I do feel some burden of responsibility for this because we enabled them to operate their business and I am saddened that he was not able to keep himself in check after the chances and help we gave him.

I have personally seen the types of insults that he is known to send at people, some of it has been actually disgusting. I am disappointed that the community even had to put with it and I am deeply sorry to any of you who may have been insulted or offended by him.

Pete Davenport
Tea Trade

Angrboda 2011-12-03 02:14:21 -0500

Holy monkeys, this blew up BIG while I was sleeping!!! O.O

I’m sorry about all the drama, Jessie, it probably wouldn’t have got this bad if the rest of us hadn’t stuck our noses in where it technically didn’t really belong. Sometimes it’s just impossible to ignore it when we see one of our own getting an unfair treatment.

And Pete, I don’t think you bear any guilt in this. You were willing to give someone a second chance to correct their behaviour, and I think that’s a good thing even when it doesn’t work out.

aisling of tea 2011-12-03 07:33:39 -0500

Wow…yeah, since this whole mess went down, several people have come out to tell about their bad experiences with this particular person. I just don’t understand how someone like that can get into tea, it’s such an awesome, calming, good-vibe kind of thing.

I agree with Angrboda on several points, the first being that it’s hard to ignore it when we see one of our own getting unfair treatment…it’s called a community for a reason. I can just remember being bullied by companies or people and wishing someone else would speak up and show support. My wife read this when it was all said and done and she said “Wow. That was the nicest gang-up I’ve ever seen.”

The second point I agree with is that no one, Pete, Jessie, or anyone else, bears any blame in this except for Magic Carpet Tea/The Tea Show.

Angrboda 2011-12-03 07:57:13 -0500

The Tea Sh- what, them again??? Are they involved with Magic Carpet? Or are they the same? I’m missing something here…

aisling of tea 2011-12-03 08:04:42 -0500

As I understand it, they are one and the same.

Angrboda 2011-12-03 08:08:31 -0500

Ha, that doesn’t surprise me one bit. I distinctly remember a certain debacle.

aisling of tea 2011-12-03 08:22:23 -0500

Yeah, that’s what everyone seems to be saying. I don’t know that much about them, but what I’ve seen, I don’t particularly care for.

Jessie 2011-12-03 11:11:23 -0500

I agree with you both that no one’s at fault but those in question. And, wow, has it been interesting learning more! It all makes sense now.

I also agree with “the nicest gang-up”! Perfect way of putting it. Thanks for chiming in, everyone. What a great community Steepster is.

Angrboda 2011-12-03 11:26:58 -0500

Yes it is! Sometimes we come across someone who’s not very nice, but for every annoying person there are at least fifty nice ones. I wouldn’t want to be without. :)

Robert Godden 2011-12-03 15:24:23 -0500

This pair have a massive history of this:
Here’s how they tried to shake done a tea company : http://westiseast.co.uk/blog/weird-seo-twitter-scam/
And here’s how I picked a fight with them
http://thedevotea.teatra.de/2011/10/05/fine-china-as-a-stabbing-device/

But Jesse, you missed a golden opportunity. You should have adopted THEIR methods, and asked for $10 for a good reveiw

Angrboda 2011-12-03 16:15:33 -0500

GOSH! That guy is seriously scary. That rather makes the debacle I ended up in seem like water in comparison. All we got were a few fatty comments. Oh, and we were all internet newbies. That has all been deleted now, so I can’t link to it. (I possess screenshots, though. Sadly I didn’t think to take any of this thread before the Great Magic Carpet Flounce, but I’ve still got the comments in email notifications. Right now I’m thinking I should hang on to these.)

Jessie 2011-12-03 17:23:26 -0500

Wow! This makes their statement in an email that “As a tea reviewer myself, I don’t review teas if I have as many bad things to say about them as you did, because nobody sets out to blend or grow bad tea” even more ridiculous.

In this email they also quoted part of my review in order to complain but ALTERED it to fit their argument. Also in this email? “I’m sorry if you’ve had a nasty experience. If it makes you feel better, we did too. With the coupon that you used, we made no profit off of you.”

I had been curious why the seller’s name(s) weren’t anywhere on their site and they seemed to purposely not sign emails. No wonder!

Angrboda: good call. I’m hanging onto my email notifications too.

DaisyChubb 2011-12-04 00:00:27 -0500

Sending good energy to everyone!

Some people scare me, but the amount of totally amazing wonderful people, the nicest people I have ever had contact with, are on this website. Gracious, kind, honest and passionate. That’s you! :)

ssajami 2011-12-04 00:41:42 -0500

Wow, I am not wholly surprised that this is the same user as the Tea Show. The bullying techniques are the same.

It appears there have been more than one incidents involving these people, but only those directly involved in each know what had happened.

I am not sure I agree with the “delete the whole thread” method. Would it not be better to flag the threads/comments as potentially offensive, but leave them up so that others can see who these people are – and maybe prevent someone else from being scammed / insulted / bullied?

I agree with DaisyChubb, it’s a truly beautiful thing to see how much honesty and integrity there is here in our little tea-loving community and in the vast majority of the people here – and how the community really comes together to protect/defend one of our own

Angrboda 2011-12-04 02:17:12 -0500

It depends on whether or not their account gets terminated though. I think when it does, either because someone gets the boot or because they choose to have it terminated themselves, in most places everything they’ve posted would disappear as well.

I’ve seen some places on the internet though where you can get points for good and bad behaviour. Not sure how that works though, seems like it would be an enormous admin task keeping an eye on everybody, but in principle it sounds like a good idea. Then you can get an impression at a glance if someone is being less than nice.

Their argument that nobody sets out to grow and sell bad tea is leaking like a sieve too. Nobody sets out to make a bad cd or a bad film or open a bad restaurant or provide a bad customer experience, yet there are negative, even scathing reviews of such things in the papers every day. A review is, in my opinion, all about the experience of the customer with a certain product, and if that experience is not a good one, that means telling it as it is. A low score and negative adverbs. I was surprised to learn yesterday that there are tea review sites out there that won’t allow mostly negative reviews. I don’t understand that. If you know that everything they say HAS to have a positive spin on it, are they really being honest? Can you really trust anything they have to say about a product? I can’t see why the product of tea has to be ‘protected’ this way. I remember the owner of Golden Moon posting on the boards about how he had taken some of the negative reviews his product had received to hearts, looked for trends in them and used them to try and make a better product and that he felt he had succeeded in that.

Me, if I was given something date flavoured to review and I wasn’t allowed to say anything negative in it, I’d probably have to resort to, it’s tea. It has an aroma and a flavour. It came in the mail. The stamp on the box was pretty. How useful is that?

Finally, yes, Jessie, I’m holding on to mine as well! Gmail is awesome that way. Lots of space and they’re easy to find again later. :) Did you ever change anything in the original review? Shame we didn’t get a screenshot of how it looked at first.

Oh, and DaisyChubb, thank you, you’re very kind. :)

Jessie 2011-12-04 02:27:49 -0500

Angrboda, I have a friend who wrote music reviews for a while. The site she contributed to made her revise at least one of her reviews for being mostly negative. It is really confusing, and doesn’t really serve the purpose of a review. That’s why Steepster’s format is helpful to consumers.

The only thing I changed was that my original mention said “date sugar” and the second and third mentions said simply “sugar”. So I added “date” in twice. I wish I hadn’t now, but I was trying to get them to calm down while explaining to them that, in fact, saying “sugar” and not “date sugar” does not constitute libel. This was so silly!

Angrboda 2011-12-04 02:48:09 -0500

Yeah, I know. Clearly every mention of sugar afterwards, unless otherwise specified, links back to that first mention. If you’re writing something about say gluten-free all-purpose flour, you don’t put in ‘gluten-free all-purpose flour’ every time you mention flour. You just put flour, right?

My boyfriend, when I showed him all this yesterday, (which led back to rereading those other screenshots) stated that clearly this guy has some anger management issues. Me, I get the impression that he’s trying to be a manipulative bastard, only it’s not working because we’re not letting ourselves be manipulated. We’re just getting annoyed. :p

And to put a positive spin on things, look how we’re all being brought together and bonding and stuff! Isn’t that awesome? I think it is. :D