Transparency in the Tea Industry?
I’m really interested to see if any representatives from Verdant will address the evidence here that Yunnan Sourcing brought forward in regard to the tree pictures. That is alarming even to someone trying to keep an open mind on this matter. Honestly, I don’t mean this with cruel intentions but I think many people are very disappointed right now, feel misled, and an explanation is in order to keep people’s faith in Verdant and keep a good reputation for the company. I have some tea friends who have already blacklisted them, and honestly it’s in Verdant’s own interest at this point to make some sense of all this. We all know that the tea industry is rife with phonies like any other industry (and if we didn’t, we are now on the topic and can come to that realization now), and honestly, with the case that’s presented here, it is very difficult to not feel that Verdant is among them now. Nobody wants to feel duped when they spend their hard-earned money, whether the tea is good or not.
I think if I owned a tea company I’d have an ethical responsibility to show support to those who have supported me. Lily’s conclusion in her previous post “If you don’t trust us, don’t support us.” has been burned into my mind more than any other statement I read there. It goes without saying and seems to ignore the customers who did trust them and did support them and now feel let down. Do the owners of Verdant only care about the people who have made their company and lifestyles possible enough to say “don’t buy from us again?” I appreciate the original attempt at an explanation from Lily, but now credible concerns have been brought up in regard to that explanation. At the very least I think a complete explanation and addressing of their current customers’ concerns is warranted in a situation like this. And that would be the minimal effort in making this situation better. There are better solutions beyond that. Support in the tea industry is not a one way street that leads to the vendors and farmers. Without patronage, there is no tea industry.
In my case it’s not just my money, but multiple peoples money that went to six cakes to split. Now, I’ll admit I bought these for a comparison. In regards to claims and description, if that ends up being incorrect then overpayment could very well be a thing. What sucks most is being in the middle and not knowing how to respond to those who trusted me with their money while staying out of this mess. It they are great teas then I have nothing to worry about, but if they are not then I will feel semi responsible for being hasty at purcharsing them because they were going to sell out. My intentions were to provide a valuable lesson in tasting difference on tree age… If it turns into an evaluation of a companies legitamcy on claims, I will end up contributing to negative remarks towards them; even if it is negative views based on truth and deserving of those views. All of this is to say, damnit… these should not be issues we are facing in pursuing tea and experiencing a process of producing a drink from plant that have brought others together.
The threeds are filled with great reflection, but dang… researching tea shouldn’t be like political puzzles to figure out where the lines are.
:(
@LiquidProust. I wouldn’t worry about it. You clearly listed what teas. The risk is split and it’s only a few extra $$ per person.
Plus, now I’m kinda curious to try em.
@LP personally I think it’s great that you got them before they sold out, even if the comparison ends up different from what you intended. Many people get a chance to evaluate them against other teas – how is that not a perfect outcome given the circumstances?
Don’t stress about it. I’m guessing most of the folks on the list are like me: looking forward to trying the teas at the center of the controversy for only a few bucks.
Yes, Liquid, please don’t feel personally responsible if there is an error. We all at some point or another approach tea buying with a level of enthusiasm that can lead to a suspension of disbelief, and it seems everyone is quite eager to try this tea now that there is so much hype.
Lp you are not responsible for the claim they made if they are false. You went by , as we all did, by what they stated about their product. The error and any guilt, if applicable, is not yours. I don’t think anyone will even slightly say this. You made a great opportunity for people to try something that would have normally been out of reach. I will stand by you as well as the others I am sure. Nuff said as you are doing a great service.
Yep – what mrmopar said. No problem at all LP – we will get to try some interesting teas because of your effort. I’m interested to see what the controversial ones are actually like….
LP, no worries. You are doing a great job and I’m just thankful you put together these group buys. Like everyone else, I am now even more curious to find out what the tea tastes like.
LP, I’m one of the ones who signed up after all this controversy blew up, and one of the reasons is that I’m now very curious to try them! I think it’s great that with relatively little investment, I can try all 3 teas at the heart of this mess, and I also get the opportunity to compare them directly with selections from various other more credible puer vendors. It’s actually the best thing to come out of this, I think. :)
Verdant sent me a handful of pictures that illustrate that the tea tree is the same one in each photo. That I am sure of after seeing all the pictures, as for the age of them… I don’t care. I’m in this to see the difference between the three. Heres how I view it after thinking awhile: If they are that rare and old, this will be an amazing journey for us all. However, if they are not, I doubt it will be a boring or bad experience to try each of the three new offerings from Verdant.
I’m still just standing at the back listening, but this is one tricky situation. Hopefully Verdant post the pictures that show the tree from angles and the highlights to show it’s the same one. I’m unsure how I would respond online either because it’s out there for everyone to critique. In the end there are farmers out there working hard and I have no idea what the heck they do with what they do it with… I can just analyze the taste which is what is important to me (and the occasional tea drunk)
Hopefully more unravels and we all learn more stuff and spark in interest about other possible issues within the tea world/community.
As far as the +-1800 year old tree, there’s just no way. The amount they had available far surpasses the amount the tree can produce for harvest (I’m not even sure why people would still be on the fence about this one, other than denial). As far as the other ones I sincerely doubt it is the truth, though I’m open to be proven wrong as a person.
But as with others here, their silence says A LOT. At this point the people who got the ‘1800 year old’ should have been refunded, no questions asked, because just logically, there is no way it is what they claim it is. On the other teas, I’d be willing to be more patient and allow them time to gather their information and proof, but they should have at least acknowledged some of the issues/plot holes in their version. I think I would respect them a lot more, and so would the people who bought the cakes, they are known for their apparent great customer service and communication, but this is far departed from those two things.
They also need to address the issue of the tree that they said was picked but is in fact 300 km away from where they or Master Zhou claim it is. Showing more photos of other trees doesn’t change the fact that someone is misleading others about that one tree (at the very least).
At this point, I have lost all trust in Verdant. Their continuing silence makes it harder to contemplate ever regaining a fraction of that trust.
I sincerely doubt these teas are rare or old and truthfully have very little enthusiasm for trying any of them.
I have to stay positive. I’m not a fun person when I feel as if I have been taken advatage of. With that being said, the tea better be a good experience when I brew it or I’ll be making an Epic Rap Battle, Young Tree versus Old Tree wanabee. Soon I’ll be saying that’s OT instead of OG. It would result in an awkward embadrment for me… Oh well.
I’ve got until March to read and see what responses come out.
LP: I’m a big believer in delayed gratification, but I suspect a lot of the subscribers to the sheng olympiad will be frothing at the mouth by the time March rolls around. You may be as well.
DrJim, oh I know :)
Once the pictures start rolling in…
I’ll be sure to take a picture of each of the cakes, though I doubt the look of them would show anything of value in regards to the discussions here (maybe I’m wrong)
i’m just going to produce my own Puerh. Then i know its origins.
How does a nice Indiana terroir sound? nice organic Mollisol soil type…..with just a slight hint of RoundUp/Glyphosate from the nearby industrial corn and bean fields. :-P
t-ching has been around for quite awhile now. I am catching up on their fine articles as we speak (er type).
Hopefully the aftermath of such fiascos would be that we end up with more dependable vendors who would take care so as to not alienate their long term customer base for short term gains.
I’m bummed Verdant has still not responded even though they must be aware of the responses. While I originally thought this was an innocent mistake based out of ignorance, the continuing silence has become questionable. And I think that anyone who purchased this tea based on its misleading description is due a refund.
I think this is a fair response and I know many are with the same thoughts, I look forward to seeing how this develops as it can determine a lot of how next year goes for them.
While I am all for a company working with the farmers, a lot of this does concern me. I will admit, I’m glad this has all happened because I’m more interested in learning about what I buy and drink now. There is quite a bit to learn about what you think wouldn’t be all hazy in regards to the claims. Health and tea sure, but tree age? Never thought it would be an issue that would come up.
“Separating the Tea from the Chaff” – Another great post on twodog’s (from white2tea) blog: http://www.twodogteablog.com/2015/12/27/separating-the-tea-from-the-chaff/
By now it’s clear that Verdant has responded through their continued silence.
Makes me sad. Reconsidering future purchases and possibly canceling their monthly tea club.
One thing I will say about all of this – I have a newfound respect for Scott at Yunnan Sourcing. I don’t have an opinion on whether he was too snarky ;), but I appreciate his coming forth and speaking honestly and passionately about this whole business. To me, that was much more important than making sure the discourse was polite. It has really helped a lot of us in the tea community. I trust him even more now. Thank you, Scott!
Thanks Rich! I am guilty as charged (for being snarky). It’s hard not to be a bit considering the claims being made. I try to remain on the sidelines as much as possible but I did feel that claims made were an affront to the whole industry. When Verdant replied with even more lies I felt I needed to be the one to point out the holes in their story. Honestly I don’t know why they didn’t just say they were duped by Master Zhou and then refund everyone. It’s like seeing a pit full of snakes and then just jumping into it when you could have skirted around it.
In my view Verdant’s claims are only slightly better than the sellers on EBay or Aliexpress selling 1960 ripe puerh tea for $10 when it was invented in 1973.
Scott, I’m with you on that. But I feel like they’ve avoided replying to this just to avoid that possibility of refunding, otherwise they would have at least excused themselves directly until they gathered their thoughts.
I understand the importance of honesty in the discussion re Verdant, and the need to call them out when they make false claims. But I see no reason why such a discussion could not have been both honest/frank and polite/professional. It is not a question of one-or-the-other, but rather both at the same time. I realise however that this view puts me at odds with the general concensus here.
Best wishes,
sherubtse
I echo Rich’s sentiments. YS was the first high end tea shop I ordered from and this reaffirms they are the real deal.
I’m conflicted about Verdant. I enjoy some of their teas but as a vendor, their reputation has dropped a few notches in my eyes. All they had to do was admit their mistake and this could have blown over. I’ll continue to be a customer but will take their claims with a grain of salt now.
I think you have to take any even semi unreasonable claim from a tea seller with a grain of salt. This goes especially for EBay and Aliexpress where a lot of little sellers make big claims about their tea. How many times have I seen a tea marketed as being from 1960 or 1970 on Aliexpress but only sold for $10 or $15? Sellers will claim just about anything. Where in reality a puerh from this era will sell for four figures.
I don’t think Yunnan Sourcing or White2tea were impolite, they just poked some harmless fun on an internet forum, nothing to make a big issue out of & didn’t come across as rude to me.
Allan, Verdant claims being honest seller, putting articles about vendors. eBay and Aliexpress sellers nobody takes seriously. So we shouldn’t even compare them.
Here’s a portion from my email:
“If it is useful to you or to put your mind at rest, I have included some additional information that I’ve been sharing with those folks who have been writing back and forth with me personally over the past few days. We are also working on much more in depth articles, and we will continue to write and translate interviews and videos with more material we gather when we return to Yunnan in just a few months. "
Just wanted to share because it says they will be returing to Yunnan with interviews and videos. Looking forward to the video/s.
I don’t want to put them in the same basket as Verdant, but C.S. is also selling tea being advertised as coming from 800 years old trees: http://camellia-sinensis.com/en/tea/aged/pu-er-2015-bada-shan
$55/100g
That’s at least slightly more reasonable than a 1800 year old tree, but the use of the word ‘blend’ makes me suspect that it was picked from a wild/arbor region of ‘suspected /up to/ 800 years old’ trees.
Bada is also not considered one of the ‘Six Great Mountains’ of puer growing, but does have one of the largest old-growth regions in Xishuangbanna.
(I’d still take it worth a grain of salt though.)
This one is also selling very cheaply for 800 year old trees but it is a much more plausible claim than 1800 year old trees.
I think cs is an example of an otherwise okay vendor that just doesn’t understand pu-erh. I don’t really buy the 800 year old trees and tbh, I don’t buy this 2001 cake made from 1,000 year old trees either: http://camellia-sinensis.com/en/tea/aged/pu-er-2001-lahu-theiers-sauvages-1000-ans
I think some of these vendors just don’t think their claims will be questioned no matter what they are. The 2001 cake is not as cheap as the other but still enough of a bargain to make me wonder.
Yeah, that’s getting a bit out there.
It’s probably a better idea in general to stick to vendors who specialize in puer. Shops like CS try to carry as many different types of tea as possible. They carry too many other teas from too many other countries, and that makes quality control difficult; they can’t possibly know each region (each country!) well enough to avoid getting duped themselves.
I also don’t think they’re direct-sourced, or at least don’t claim to be, like Verdant. The more middlemen, the farther you end up from the truth.
If anything comes from this entire debacle, I hope it’s that other vendors, those who never quite scrutinized the origins of their tea, start to do so. Puer in particular, but.
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