AllanK said

Red Lantern Tea

I am wondering if anyone here has had a problem with Red Lantern Tea on Ebay. They were one of my favorite Ebay sellers but not any more. After several successful purchases where I gave them all positive feedback, and one problem with shipping where I gave them positive feedback and five star ratings anyway they have for no apparent reason blocked me from their store and refuse to unblock me at this point. If fact they totally refuse to admit they have blocked me. They have the attitude that I haven’t earned the right to give them my money and business.

27 Replies
awilsondc said

That is unfortunate. Maybe it’s a sign that you need to expand your tea purchasing experience to a different vendor? I’m sure there are many others who would be grateful for your business!

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Dustin said

I didn’t even know that ebay had a blocking feature! I agree, buy tea from someone else.

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boychik said

Never heard of blocking on eBay before. Huge mistake! Huge!

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Cwyn said

As I wrote on the Teachat topic, I was an EBay power seller for several years. Customer issues get a seller to the point where we quickly decide we don’t want to deal with any problems. Even though you paid Red Lantern after getting the package, it was an unpleasant situation for them because of the claim you filed and won. Of course it was unpleasant for you, but you are asking for an explanation for the seller’s behavior. As a seller, I want to ship and forget the transaction. Anything that happens post-transaction that is problematic is immediately Not Worth It. There are always more customers for my one of a kind items, I block and move on. Sorry to be blunt but there is a weariness that happens with EBay selling, as well as with buying.

AllanK said

I filed a claim and won because they essentially waited 35 days to ship the item. They sent the package to Hong Kong with a slow courier instead of sending it China Post from their location. If a package does not show up on tracking after that much time I file a claim. Anyone who doesn’t is an idiot.

Cwyn said

I would do the same myself, even though it seems clear the shipping was China Post which takes forever and there is no tracking for this type of shipping. But I am just trying to give you the perspective of a seller on EBay who used to do a lot of business over a number of years. If a buyer files a claim, and I shipped the item, I won’t deal with that buyer again, period.

However, I see tea sellers using slow shipping methods and I stopped using all slow shipping methods precisely because of the buyer issues. I learned that online buying is somewhat of an instant gratification experience, and the longer a buyer has to wait, the dissatisfaction starts to grow, even when the shipping time is reasonable. I stopped using slow shipping methods entirely. EBay sellers get better listing placement with free shipping. I build in the cost of expedited shipping into the item price. Free expedited shipping, even when it inflates the item price stopped customer slow shipping complaints completely. When the shipping is free, takes less than 10-15 business days, there is literally no room for complaint unless the package is stuck or damaged in some way beyond anyone’s control. I am surprised at the number of tea sellers who even offer China Post. If customers beg me for First Class International I’d refuse, it is Priority or nothing, the hassle of surface is no longer worth it to me. Your case is an example of why.

AllanK said

Red Lantern Tea continues to insist they have not blocked me yet they are unwilling to resolve the problem if they haven’t. If I were them and telling the truth I would contact Ebay to see why some customers are having problems purchasing.

I learned much later after the shipment had arrived that they did not ship it directly but shipped it to Hong Kong first via courier. This courier took a long time to arrive in Hong Kong. Because they shipped by courier and used an unreliable method it took about 35 days to be scanned into the USPS system. Despite this debacle I did not give them bad feedback but gave them 5 star Positive feedback. If they did not block me as they claim they should be willing to fix the situation, they are unwilling.

Cwyn said

Yeah, it is a slow system. I would never ship this way to EBay customers. Even if it took half the time, that is still too slow for many customers in my experience. We are in an age of global business, and nearly every country has expedited shipping options these days. People don’t want to wait for mule-slow products.

I am just trying to represent a seller perspective, you can take it for what it’s worth: the transaction with you was a problem, any transaction online that is less than smooth is a problem. Many Asian business people are not going to be up front and direct because it might be rude, which they don’t want to be. But they have blocked you and are hoping you take the hint that they really don’t want your business. Yes, it seems like it “should” be that any customer with money would be a premium, but I am saying that online shipping is a huge hassle for sellers, just simply not dealing with a person is easier. On EBay a Paypal chargeback is considered hugely bad, and no seller wants these very often or they risk Seller Protection. Chinese sellers would and should be even more nervous about risking bad transactions on EBay. Easier to avoid a problem at the start.

Another issue is I don’t know what this seller might be risking doing business on western EBay. Who knows if they are following all the applicable rules in their country? They may be using Paypal to dodge taxes or other forms of banking and declaring profits. Maybe they deal in other products on the side they don’t want flagged. I can tell you for a fact it is easy to buy illegal drugs on EBay. In any case, they don’t want negative experiences for their own reasons. I would let it go, if I were you, and either buy tea elsewhere or have someone else order from this seller for you.

AllanK said

I think that this sellers perspective is that he could now do anything he wanted to me without consequence. He does not even have the courtesy to admit he has blocked me. At this point I would probably not buy from his store if he unblocked me. But I plan to show him that I am not completely powerless. I will tell as many people as possible just how dishonest he is. I gave him the opportunity to change the blockage but he declined. He is a damn fool too, throwing away good customers. I had no knowledge he had done this until recently. I had purchased from him after the shipping problem without incident. He would have gotten five star ratings and positive feedback. Instead he has thrown away business and created a great deal of ill will.

If he really did not block me as he claims he could choose to fix the problem. I would probably not purchase from him anyway at this point. But it would be nice if he would do the right thing although this will not happen.

Cwyn said

I am sorry if my posts have created more ill will on your part. My intention was to illustrate the experience online sellers go through to try and help you understand why you got blocked. But this new post of yours is showing the kind of nightmare buyer I would be running from myself. Sellers want happy buyers and want to avoid unhappy ones. I don’t really believe you are this type of vindictive buyer at heart. Perhaps the only way to understand it is to sell online yourself and experience for yourself both the joys and the irritations of dealing with customers online. Also, being direct about something negative is not really the way many Asians do business: when confronted with something negative, people will usually still nod and smile and keep any negative expressions to themselves. Here in the West we often will look people in the face and be direct and even confrontational, preferring blunt honesty even when unpleasant. This is not so everywhere in the world and one reason we have a reputation sometimes of being too forthright and rude, it is merely a cultural difference. I hope you can just let it go and take your valuable business elsewhere.

AllanK said

I was not a vindictive buyer. I keep telling you that. I gave all positive feedback. I simply expected the item to show up on tracking before 35 days. If I was a vindictive buyer I would have given him negative feedback and not came back. I came back, bought again and gave him positive feedback and five star ratings. I only put this online as a last resort when he would neither fix the problem or at least do me the honor of being honest with me. He claims he will not deal with anyone who has ever given him a low DSR rating. I have never given him a particularly low rating so the problem may be with his system. He is unwilling to look into it and fix it. I was a happy customer planning to spend my money at his store. Now I am an angry ex customer because of his actions. He treated a paying customer like a brick and mortar store would treat a thief they had caught. How would you react to this treatment? I think you would be angry too. There are at least some consequences for his actions. He may lose a potential customer or two because of these posts or he may fix the problem because he wants me to write here that he has fixed it, his choice.

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Cwyn said

Definitely his choice. Sounds like he has made it, if you messaged him and he didn’t remove the block.

As a buyer, I wouldn’t be annoyed for long because I know how EBay works from both sides of the transaction. Instead, I would take my money elsewhere. As a buyer, I want the seller to meet my criteria, and there are always other sellers who will.

AllanK said

I sent him requests but he would not even admit to the block or that there was a problem. I will spend my money elsewhere and recommend every one else do the same. His shipping is SAL for gods sake, lousy shipping but he charges the price for e packet.

Cwyn said

That would deserve dings to the star ratings for shipping. And it is why I go with free shipping and build in that cost. Buyers aren’t stupid and know what shipping costs. Sellers need to use the shipping service they are quoting. Surface is fine, but sellers need to say so.

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AllanK said

I notice that the one tea I wanted in particular from Red Lantern Tea is available from Puerhshop for about the same price. Dealing with the people who run Puerhshop is a much more pleasant experience. The idiot at Red Lantern shouldn’t throw away business and treat paying customers like thieves.

Cwyn said

Then that would definitely be a better experience in the long run.

For many years. I was a moderator on an EBay Sellers forum, of about 300 sellers. The sellers decided to move the forum off EBay now that most of us sell on multiple venues. Anyway, I would be happy to put a poll to the sellers group asking " how many of you would sell an item again to a buyer who filed a chargeback and won?" Willing to bet the results would be nearly zero. It is great you moved past the chargeback experience, but online sellers usually won’t try again. Local brick and mortar shops will continue to deal in person again, but online people just won’t.

AllanK said

You obviously don’t succeed at looking at this from a buyers perspective. No tracking for 35 days means no evidence he shipped the item. Had he chosen reliable shipping the problem wouldn’t have happened. There would have been no claim. I had even told him I was willing to pay more for shipping.Look at it from a buyer’s perspective. How long without tracking would you wait before filing a claim. I waited long enough, more than two weeks before filing. If he had not refused to contact the post office to see what was wrong I would have waited. When asked to contact the post office he simply refused. Even if he knew nothing would come of it he should have made an inquiry. This was all the sellers fault. He was responsible. He deserved the claim.

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Cwyn said

If I order from Yunnan Sourcing and choose the cheapest shipping option, that is Surface mail, it has no tracking number. White2Tea uses packet I think, but they don’t email you a tracking number for the shipment. If I use First Class International in the US, your mailing form has a number, but it is not a tracking number either. You bought from a seller who used China Surface mail and a courier, there isn’t a tracking number for that.

My first Yunnan Sourcing shipment, took 60 days, well past the Paypal time frame. I asked around and emailed Scott. I was told Surface takes 8-10 weeks and to wait. Did I file a chargeback? No, I waited. The package arrived.

I took it as a lesson learned that I DO want a tracking number, so aside from White2Tea, I ONLY buy tea from places that offer a shipping option with tracking, and Faster than Surface. I prefer to get emails with tracking numbers, so I buy from vendors who offer that option. White2Tea doesn’t email tracking or even tell me they have shipped. But in this case, TwoDog is from my state and if I don’t get my tea, I can always go find his family. Lol.

AllanK said

That is not true, surface and SAL have tracking numbers, just no intermediate tracking. They have an initial tracking scan in China that shows up on the USPS website as “accepted” and they have delivery confirmation. His package did not have this initial scan until 35 days after he claimed he shipped it.

Cwyn said

Those are postal numbers, not tracking. As a buyer and seller, I have had even real tracking numbers show nothing on the websites the entire journey of the package. I’ve had packages sit with no tracking update whatsoever for no reason or a gazillion reasons like the buyer didn’t go pick up the package and pay the duties, in some countries there is no update until the duty is paid. I’ve had to file international inquiries. I’ve had packages returned to me from countries like Italy for no reason I could fathom. Nothing you are saying here is terribly far out of the ordinary, and keep in mind the country you buying from.

What I just don’t get is why, if all this is such a huge complaint for you, that you are also complaining over why the seller has now blocked you. What is so special NOW about this seller that you want to deal with them again?

AllanK said

At this point I no longer want to deal with the seller but I am extremely angry over his obnoxious rude behavior. Dealing with customers is supposed to be a part of business. He clearly thinks business is supposed to be a fairy tale of perfection and that he should only have to deal with customers on his terms.

Cwyn said

Most successful online retailers have multiple venues, at least any seller with half a gourd would have a website. The fees paid to EBay for sales easily exceed the cost of running a website. EBay is used by successful sellers as advertising to draw customers away from EBay to buy off their website. They get visibility for their website by running a few EBay auctions or having an EBay store with a few items to attract new customers.

I mention this because EBay customers are the Worst customers to deal with. Even Amazon is better. Etsy is better by far. Anyone who can sell anyplace else would rather do it. The customer base is that bad on EBay. So an EBay seller is more likely to refuse to deal with a customer than sellers on other sites. That seller has seen other bad customers in the past, so they are quick to hit that block button today, compared to when they started out.

AllanK said

I think you are inaccurate. The customer base is very good on EBay. You only notice the bad ones who file inappropriate claims. Most EBay purchases and the customer base is good or EBay would go out of business from lack of sellers. I only place an EBay claim for good reason. I got some lousy tea from a US seller on EBay. It was terrible. She knew it was terrible when she sold it. She deserved negative feedback for the tea or a claim. I did not give her negative or neutral feedback or file a claim. I eventually gave her positive feedback although not noticeably great feedback. I think that 98% of Ebay Customers are great and to say otherwise is just wrong.

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I’m not sure why you want to get tea from E-bay, or want to keep dealing with this seller. JKteashop is pretty good about tracking, and ships within a couple weeks.

AllanK said

I suspect that if I look hard enough for anything he has on his site I can find it on Taobao and order through a proxy. I would have to do a visual search of teas on Taobao though. Ebay is much simpler. The point is he has no right to do what he did he has the power. There is a big difference. Is JKteashop an Ebay vendor?

yyz said

You can choose your platform. They have their own site, an eBay store and aliexpress.
http://www.jkteashop.com
http://stores.ebay.com/chineseteasupplier
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/802721

Different items and sizes may be available through different platforms.

AllanK said

I will check them out. I just placed a seemingly successful order on www.dragonteahouse.biz. They are also better than Red Lantern Tea.

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